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it's always the kids and the helpers who lose out

  1. #17
    aussiegal is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    "as for speaking better English than their employers, well, if they're so smart, why are they cleaning toilets in a foreign country?"

    are you serious Zen? This is an outrageous comment. You sound completely ignorant. Nobody asks to be born into a country like the Phillipines with no opportunities beyond moving overseas and waiting hand on foot for people like you. Perhaps if these helpers weren't discriminated against by people in Hong Kong they would actually be able to use their brains for doing more than just being a helper.

    As for those people who have said 'don't judge', it's all well and good to say don't judge but it's missing the point. Some people have genuine reasons for leaving their kids with a helper on a Sunday. I'm not talking about these people. I'm talking about adults who have children yet refuse to act like parents.

    Why is it ok to get on here and talk about bad helpers but it's not ok to discuss where employers are the ones in the wrong? People who are responding negatively to what i or most of the other posters who agree with me have said are not really reading what we are saying. Our criticisms are directed only at employers who treat their helpers badly and ignore their own children as much as possible. It effects us who work hard to instill good values in our children as kids learn most from other kids around them. I don't want my child coming home from school having learnt how to be a brat by some child whose parents don't care what he does.

  2. #18
    bekyboo44 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Discovery Bay, Hong Kong
    I agree very much with the way dh are treated in HK- they are treated as third class citizens. And not just by the people that employ them but by the cashiers in park n shop, and the drivers on the buses (two examples I have seen).

    Unfortunetly some people have no idea how to treat their helper. It's almost as if they pay slave wages they get to treat her like a slave. As your employee your dh deserves your respect- espec. if she is the one looking after your child and home all day.
    I have a friend who just has no idea how to treat her helper- she then comes into my home and treats my helper the same!!!! I have put a stop to it but it drives me crazy because I know her children are going to grow up treating their dh the same as she does!

    I've had people say to me- 'how can I trust someone with my child who has left her own children in the phillipines to work for me,'. This comment also shows a lack of understanding about the plight of most dh. The Phillipines is a desperately poor country and dh don't choose to leave their children- they do it, they come and work for us, because they have a family to support. I don't mean just their own children- I mean their brothers, sisters, elderly parents, cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews. In most villages in the Phillipines if it wasn't for dh working abroad many children wouldn't be at school, many people wouldn't get medical treatment when they fall sick.

    I think you will find that a lot of DH went to university in the Phillipines. The sad fact is that they earn more as a dh here than they could ever hope to earn in the Phillipines.

    As for parents who hand over their children to their helper to raise them- unfortunetly we live in a society in HK where money, material posessions are number one.

    It is possible for two parents to work, to hire a helper, and still raise your child. I know many people who are doing it.

  3. #19
    Sumei is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Hong Kong

    while we do believe we cannot stand in judgement over everyone, it does not mean we are not allowed an opinion. I don't think it's relevant to compare the social economic environment our parents and grandparents experienced 40-50 years ago with our current day situation - back then they were in between World Wars trying to keep their families fed and alive, you can hardly draw any similarities to modern day middle class HK saying the children of that era grew up "OK" isnt terribly relevant to our children today!
    Despite what you may think, there are alot of women who have pursued higher education (I myself have a first and 2nd degree), worked hard at a career (was VP at a top investment bank) and yet have decided to give it up to be full time hands on parents, we didn't do it becos we didn't enjoy our work or the financial benefits that come with it, we make that big step becos we believe our children's future is just as if not more impt than our personal career development. While life is not as rosy and perfect as it should be, we work hard to try and make it that for our children, throwing up our hands and saying "such is life!" to some of us just doesn't cut it.

    And funnily, I think there is a correlation between ill treatment of hired full time help and being neglectful parents (don't for a minute assume I am saying working mothers are neglectful parents becos I am not) - if we can't treat our helpers like equal human beings who are really just employees working in a domestic environment and not slaves, often it's these very same people who think it's perfectly all right for the helper to work 14 hour days (with no Sunday off or public holidays) minding their kids while they work long hours and sleep in in the morning, every morning not just Sundays!

  4. #20
    HappyV is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Zen, I would also like to add that your comment smacks of ignorance, if not downright racism.

    My DH is a lot 'smarter' than many parents I know. She has chosen to come here and work because it means a better life for her family, Her children are looked after by her sister and mother - and certainly, her children are being parented in a much more inclusive, caring and hands on way than many children I meet in HK.

    Parenting is hard work - it takes time, energy and yes, brains. If you think of your helper as so un smart, why do you leave yor children in her hands? That's right - because it's easier to pass your kids off to someone else.

  5. #21
    aussiegal is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    MayC, we're obviously not talking about you. It is clear you are a loving parent who tries her hardest.

    It is not bad to need some time on Saturday to have a rest from your own job - it's more when people dump their children for the entire day while they sleep or hang out at home.

    I will say however that regardless of how much time you spend with your children if a child is being naughty they need to be disciplined. they can't get away with it simply because they've been naughty during the precious little time they have with you.

  6. #22
    carang's Avatar
    carang is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Sai Kung
    although i am guilty of liking to have a lie-in, i feel that i am justified as i am still exclusively bf a 4 month old. although she sleeps well, it's still not the same as having uninterupted sleep.

    however, i find that when i need to go to town or even to work, i try to find a way that i can take at least one of my kids with me. even spending time on the bus getting to stanley can be a lot of fun with them.

    personally, i could not imagine NOT wanting to spend as much time with my kids as possible. I do not understand parents that like to go on trips without their kids. i'mnot saying that they are bad parents or that they don't deserve a break, but personally, i couldn't fathom WANTING to get away for a few days without the kids. a few hours, maybe, not a few days.

    but that's just me.

  7. #23
    dacia is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    New Territories, HK
    I think that the parents we're talking about here will not even read a forum like this. I love this forum because I get so much parenting tips. And I'm sure everyone here wants to be a better parent than they already are. I think parenting is so tough non of the education we've received so far, no matter how smart academically we are, will make us perfect parents. I only have 1 child, I'm a full time stay at home mum, and I'm struggling everyday. Reading this website make me feel I may not be good but I'm trying.

  8. #24
    mum of 2 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Hong Kong
    aussiegal, am guessing that your post was inspired the post on this forum wanting a single helper 24/7? I cannot work out if that post is 'for real', or just trying to provoke outrage.

    I think I know the parents to whom you are referring. I take our children to the same playroom, pool etc. regularly and there are some children with whom we always seem to overlap and they are NEVER with thier parents. It's not necessarily working parents either, often one parent is 'busy' at the spa or at lunch, and just let the helpers take over. I really like to think they are in the minority though.

    I must add though, that I don't think it is a uniquely HK issue. I was taken aback by how many of my friends and neighbours have FT, usually live-out help in London. They did not seem to think twice about disappearing for days or long-weekends leaving their offspring with newly hired Eastern European 'nannies'.

    I think the situation is different to that of 50 years ago too. Nowadays, we are a bit further down the road of family planning, we usually make a conscious decision to start a family etc. There certainly are parents who think that 'by throwing money at the problem', they can 'have it all'. That is VERY different to needing the odd breather. We all deserve a lie-in occassionally. In our house, that means taking turns - if my husband lies in, I don't and vv. There will be plenty of time in years to come when we cannot get teenagers out of bed or to want to spend any time with us at all!
    Last edited by mum of 2; 05-29-2007 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Typos

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