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BF interval stretch longer = milk ss drop?

  1. #9
    LLL_Sarah is offline Registered User
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    A lot of people are surprised that breastfed babies don’t drink more as they grow older but it is milk quality that changes not the quantity. Your milk changes from the beginning of the feed to the end of the feed, from the beginning of the day to the end of the day and also as the baby grows – so that it is always prefect for your baby.

    I don’t know why people are suggesting that you “pump pump pump” because if you pump as well as breastfeeding you will end you with too much milk. (Over supply has just as many associated problems as under supply – if not more.) And if you pump instead of feeding you will find it much harder work and may end up with under supply problem because direct breastfeeding is much more stimulating to your body than pumping.

    So does that mean that I don’t have to feel engorged to know there's milk inside and that IT IS OKAY to just have enough even if baby feeding schedule is erratic?” – YES

    When a baby goes through a growth spurt she isn’t increasing your supply but rather feeding more because she wants to eat more. If you suddenly wanted to gain 2 lbs in a day you too would need to eat more calories and the easiest way to do this is to fit in more meals. It is the same with the baby during the growth spurt she has more feeds. Your body just replaced the milk she takes out so as she takes more milk out – you replace more.

    Please bring your baby with you to the meetings – all the other mothers do. I think the flu season will be over very soon, maybe even by 25th March (our next meeting in Central) but if not definitely by 8th April (next meeting in Happy Valley).

    It is really difficult to say when she will feed at a longer interval and for shorter time. Some babies are doing so by three months and other not by six months. It is very usual for a baby to have three different patterns of feeding within the day.

    Often the morning time is quite regular with feeds at say 7:00 am. 9:30 am and 12:00 noon (regular pattern of 2.5 hours between feeds). Then there is a part of the day where they sleep longer – maybe even 5 hours – and, of course, you hope this is during the night but it isn’t always. The third pattern is one of making up for the feeds they missed while asleep and so they cram lots of feeds into a short interval – maybe 5 or 6 feeds in just 3 or 4 hours. This is called cluster feeding but I tend to think of it as a Chinese Banquet. (see thread entitled Not enough milk - Top up bottles, http://www.geobaby.com/forum/not-eno...t119515p2.html)

    Best wishes,
    SARAH
    La Leche League Leader
    www.lllhk.org

  2. #10
    fennho's Avatar
    fennho is offline Registered User
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    oh yes, another potential problem i have in mind is the "foremilk, hind milk imbalance". If i keep waking baby up to jus nurse a bit and putting her back to sleep, wouldnt this cause baby to keep taking in the foremilk and no hind milk?

  3. #11
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    fennho is offline Registered User
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    hi sarah
    thanks again! Sorry for the many questions...just wan to equip myself with the RIGHT knowledge. Erm...you were saying "Your body just replaced the milk she takes out so as she takes more milk out – you replace more." Wouldnt this cause an oversupply or at least increase the amount of milk inside me? For eg, pls correct me if i'm wrong.. say my breasts have accustomed itself to storing 750ml per 24hours, subject to baby taking it out in whichever schedule she'd like, every 2-3 hours, taking 100-150ml per feed, rite? Then, during growth spurts, she will nurse more often, thus creating "the bank" (my breasts) to store more than 750ml, correct? Maybe increased to 850ml. So does that mean, from there on, my breasts will store 850ml worth of milk from there on, and then after growth spurt periods, will decreased back to 750ml?

    What are the problems associated with oversupply? I pump partially becos i'd like to have my hubby get in the task of feeding baby as well. Becos he's at work mostly, during weekends, he felt he's not bonding well with baby. Baby cries when he tries to carry and coax her to sleep. :(

    As for the meetings, i'll try!! :) but i stay in Kowloon, and we havent dont drive, so right now, the furthest i'd venture outside of home is my mall downstairs...HK island is a tad too adventurous for me right now :p

  4. #12
    LLL_Sarah is offline Registered User
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    Fore Milk and Hind Milk

    The relationship between how much sugar and fat is in your milk is much more complicated than saying “the hind milk comes after x minutes”.

    When your breasts are full the milk has more sugar in it (this is called foremilk) and as your breasts are emptying the fat content of the milk increases (this is called hind milk). The change – a decrease in sugar and an increase in fat – occurs smoothly. There is no jump when the milk suddenly has more fat and becomes hind milk.

    If your baby manages to take most of the milk in your breasts when he feeds then at each feed your milk will have more sugar at the beginning and more fat at the end.

    If, however, you have more milk than the baby can take in one feed (the usual case) then your milk will have more sugar in the morning and more fat in the evening. And it is possible that the milk at the start of an evening feed has more fat content than the milk at the end of a morning feed!

    What I really want to say is please don’t worry about foremilk and hind milk. Your baby is already two months old and doing well. You have no problems with your milk or your breastfeeding. Try to relax and enjoy your baby - you are doing great.

    Best wishes,
    SARAH
    La Leche League Leader
    www.lllhk.org

  5. #13
    LLL_Sarah is offline Registered User
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    The way the breast works is NOT like the way the bottle works. With a bottle - it is full, partially full or empty – and once empty you have to refill it. Whereas the breast is never empty because YOU ARE ALWAYS MAKING MILK. The only time you stop making milk is when your breasts are so full they can’t hold any more.

    It is not volume that can be stored but rate of making the milk that is important. You don’t have to hold the 750 mls the baby drinks each day all at once. But you do need for your breasts to be making milk at an average rate of around 30 mls per hour (= 720 mls per 24 hours) - remember that is only 15 mls per hour per breast.

    Milk is being produced at all times, with rate of making depending upon how empty the breast is. When your breast is full your milk production is slow. But when your breasts are empty your milk production is fast.

    Milk collects in your breasts between feedings, so the amount of milk stored in the breast between feedings is greater when more time has passed since the last feed. The more milk in the breast, the slower the rate of making milk.

    To speed the rate of making milk and increase daily milk production, the key is to remove more milk from the breast and to do this FREQUENTLY, so that less milk accumulates in the breast between feedings:

    In practice, this means that a mother who wishes to increase milk supply should aim to keep the breasts as empty as possible throughout the day. And the mother who wants to decrease her milk should leave longer between emptying the breast. Leaving longer between feeds can be difficult as babies still want to feed often so we suggest block feeding where you feed on one side for x number of hours and for the next x hours on the other side – thus leaving more milk in the breast and slowing the rate of making the milk.

    Linda Smith explains how this works with her 80:20 concept. The 80 percent is the usual amount of milk taken by baby each day. The 20 percent is the residual amount of milk that remains in mother's breasts. If more than 80 percent of the milk is removed, supply increases to maintain the 80-20 ratio. If less than 80 percent is removed, supply decreases to maintain the 80-20 ratio.
    How Mother's Milk Is Made
    http://www.llli.org//llleaderweb/LV/LVJunJul01p54.html

    Another good article is How does milk production work?
    http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/milkproduction.html

    Best wishes,
    SARAH
    La Leche League Leader
    www.lllhk.org

  6. #14
    LLL_Sarah is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by fennho View Post
    What are the problems associated with oversupply? I pump partially becos i'd like to have my hubby get in the task of feeding baby as well. Becos he's at work mostly, during weekends, he felt he's not bonding well with baby. Baby cries when he tries to carry and coax her to sleep. :(
    Problems for the baby with forceful let-down and oversupply:

    • Gag, choke, strangle, gulp, gasp, cough while nursing as though the milk is coming too fast
    • Pull off the breast often while nursing
    • Clamp down on the nipple at let-down to slow the flow of milk
    • Make a clicking sound when nursing
    • Spit up very often and/or tend to be very gassy
    • Periodically refuse to nurse
    • Dislike comfort nursing in general


    Problems for the mother with over supply:

    • Prolonged engorgement
    • Repeated plugged ducts – possibly resulting in repeated mastitis if not treated quickly.


    Pumping occasionally to let the baby’s father do a feed should be no problem, especially as your baby is now two months old. We recommend that this practice isn’t started before the baby really knows how to breastfeed – usually around the four to six week mark.

    If your baby isn't use to the father holding her I'd suggest that he try to hold her as much as possible, especially while she is calm and happy (when she is asleep is ideal). My husband used to love holding our babies and watching the TV at the same time.

    Best wisehs,
    SARAH
    La Leche League Leader
    www.lllhk.org

  7. #15
    joannek is offline Registered User
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    one more word of advice from one mom "who's been there". if you always worry that you have to pump to empty the breast, plus you have to nurse every 3 hours, you'll soon find bfeeding a very tiring task, and taking you too much time. pls try to set a plan of how frequent you nurse & pump, so that you don't over-demand your breast, hence oversupplying, hence overworking yourself. try to spend your energy enjoying nursing your baby instead of worrying too much. as Sarah said yoyr bb is 2 mths & you seem to be doing a good job with your milk & all. you will only be nursing for such little time & it will be one of the best & most treasured time being a om when you look back.

    my bb is 3 years old now. i bfeed her until she was 16mths. she weaned herself. she now obviously still has fond memories of nursing & so do i. i wish i was still nursing her sometimes....especially when she's sick. i so want to give her my anti-bodies!! and when you see that your baby has gained so much weight & grown so much in the first 6 mths before he started solid, you know how much nutrients you have given him. it's an amazing feeling that cannot be described. i think all mom's hwo have breastfed their babies would agree with me.

    good luck, relax, enjoy & keep up the good work!

  8. #16
    joannek is offline Registered User
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    btw, i see that you have loads of questions, but don't we all when we first breasfed. we don't have tribes of women to help us, most of us are on our own. that's where Sarah & her other LLL leaders come in. they are the most supportive & iinformative breastfeeding support you can get. they've all been there so you don't have to feel intimidated. i feel forever grateful for my LLL leader for being there to listen & give me suggestions when i was lost.

    so ask away, girl!

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