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If this doesn't describe the Hong Kong mom scene...

  1. #17
    Suv
    Suv is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLBW View Post
    Actually, this article was very vindicating for me because I really get tired of the breastfeeding culture that surrounds me (where I'm from) and how "into" it the ladies who do it are (it's kinda cultish in some cases)--they have a club that they go to that is totally based around breastfeeding. There aren't any clubs based around bottle feeding. It's just kinda this exalted practice that doesn't need to be that way--and with some people it approaches a religious fervor. I heard it referred to once as being "Lactivists."

    I am officially done with any type of guilt trip or even caring that I bottle fed my baby because it's equal to breastfeeding him and not just in my eyes. This is very liberating.
    You are serious?? A club? Jesus christ! Do Lactivists exist only in certain section of societies? I find it funny because similarly, I encountered veganism in America in 1998 in Berkeley.
    Good for you for being done with the guilt! that itself is liberating!

  2. #18
    LeahH is offline Registered User
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    MLBW: You could always start a bottle feeding club if you feel that strongly... it's good you can vent on this forum as it doesnt actually sound like you are that 'over' your choice if you are looking for vindication in a single piece of research with subjective findings to feel liberated.

    BF should be a personal choice, my first baby was a mix for the first 6 months then moved wholly onto formula. my second is exclusively BF now, but I'll probably move to formula for reasons of convenience when I feel like it (and won't feel bad or guilty at all).

    I would say there are more formula fed babies amongst my expat friends here than BF - so not sure what you mean by a pervasive 'scene'. The tai tai lifestyle doesn't exactly lend itself to the labour intensive nature of BF - not that my friends fall into this category...

    All that said, I am not as delusional as to ignore the wealth of research that points to the clear benefits of Breast milk - I simply recongnise that I'm making a personal choice for lifestyle reasons and don't need 'research' to make me feel better.

    I don't believe there is anything wrong with formula feeding, but that doesn't mean I need to believe it's equal to BF - it's proven to be pretty difficult to simulate the compexity of what your body provides naturally in this and a whole host of other areas.

    I do find your stance interesting though, given your preference for locally sourced, organic food - it doesn't get much more local than BM. For me, you can draw parallels between GM food and formula - not to mention formula companies with massive, wholly misleading marketing campaigns, being akin to companies like Monsanto.

    Yes there is a culture based around BF, breast is best may have in part evolved as a backlash against formula companies campaigning to say formula is 'better' - e.g. the culture they evolved (new formula that has 'added this and that', expensive follow on formulas - all based on their 'subjective clinical trials' to feed profit and just as bad in my book - in particular as it pertained to the devatasting practice of pushing of formula into third world and developing countries.

    The practice may not need to be 'exalted' as far as you are concerned, but in some instances is necessary to actively push information into the public arena so everyone can have the luxury of making their own decision.

  3. #19
    eneri7 is offline Registered User
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    Thank you LeahH! My thoughts exactly.

  4. #20
    mumto2 is offline Registered User
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    Had a read of the article and two things kind of struck me...

    What exactly do some women think is going to happen after you give birth? That you've done your job? That's it? Easy peasy from then? How on earth is taking time out to breastfeed your child SUCH A STRAIN on your time??? Oh boo-hoo its so time comsuming and hard! What the?? Do these women seriously not know that you have to feed your baby X amount of times and not research various possibilities that could happen? Or simply find someone likeminded and grasp steadfastly onto their theory and artificially feed because its less time consuming? What a crock! I'm entirely over women feeling guilty about decisions they make as mothers but BE HONEST! Its the only way guilt will be gone. don't spin some crock that you don't have enough milk, tell the TRUTH, that you cannot be bothered! That you would be happier if you fed the baby formula so you felt more rested.

    And honestly how silly researching to find an article that backs your own personal story up - you will find a plethora of such stories on both sides. there's a reason formula feeding is called artificial feeding - because it is! but who cares! I don't care about your child except in a community sense - but what you feed it? who cares and I'm not going to judge you for it. Obviously I breastfeed and honestly its because as soon as I was entering my third trimester (the first time) I suddenly wanted to do everything as naturally and organically as possible to protect my child so I breastfeed until they self-wean - knowing full well that this is going to be a long commitment to my child but do I feel like I'm a better mum than formula feeders? NO because again I don't care what you do! But I do feel really really good about myself as a mother - I really feel (without being all martyr-like) that I'm doing as good a job as I can...read "as I can". Its not like you can pick two kids out of a crowd and know the difference! sidebar though, my children are NEVER sick and I do wonder if its because I have passed on my strong immune system...my instinct is that its true and i could go out and find a hundred pieces of research that agree with me and I'm betting a formula feeder could go and find a hundred pieces of research disagreeing...

    It will never stop though will it...people judge me all the time when we're chatting (you see it in their eyes) about what we do and what we don't do. I get teased for being an "earth mother", for not having a helper, for having natural deliveries, for breastfeeding til they self-wean...and you know what its not nice from this side of the fence either! so enough really...ALL mothers get teased/berrated/guilt-ridden/confused about they do...just feed them, wash them and keep them fed and educate them and hopefully at the end of the day they won't kill us in teenage-hood...

  5. #21
    mumto2 is offline Registered User
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    sorry did mean to say too that I liked your post Leah.

    Also I don't understand the reasoning behind breastfeeding being time-consuming. Of course its true neither of the kids have ever had a bottle so I'm not really sure...but all those bottles, teats, sterilising, mixing formula, warming bottles, bottle holders - man, it seems very very time-consuming to me...and so expensive! lol

  6. #22
    spockey is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumto2 View Post
    ALL mothers get teased/berrated/guilt-ridden/confused about they do...just feed them, wash them and keep them fed and educate them and hopefully at the end of the day they won't kill us in teenage-hood...
    Hear! Hear! It doesn't matter whether you breastfed or not, used organically sound resources or not, the list goes on... the bottom line is the same. There is NOT a single research that can prove anything. It's all based on circumstances.

    Having said that though, I was not able to breastfeed at all - the midwives worked it out from my hospital stay with real valid medical reasons, not by choice, I was told that it was not going to make a difference in my ability to raise a healthy child (by the same midwives in a "posh" hospital who throughout my pregnancy ensured that we felt horrible if we chose not to breastfeed). Funny eh... how the "benefits" aren't that great afterall and the bottle and the "best formula" was brought to my attention. Of course, it could have been said because they could tell I was totally depressed about not being a responsible mother because I could not breastfeed. But my child to date, is as healthy as the next child (without breastfeeding) - as for intelligence, there are SO many other factors.

    Why do mums have to be so critical of other mothers' choices? Can't we just accept that we are all aiming for the same outcome? A healthy and happy baby/child/teenager.

  7. #23
    Buckeroo is offline Registered User
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    Well said, LeahH.

    I agree with your post, too, mumto2, except for this bit:

    don't spin some crock that you don't have enough milk, tell the TRUTH, that you cannot be bothered! That you would be happier if you fed the baby formula so you felt more rested.
    I've been on both sides of the fence, so to speak. My first one was 50/50 bottle/breastfed. My second one (just turned 2) is exclusively breastfed... I'm still breastfeeding now (I want to wean, but just can't bring myself to 'force' it just now, but that's another story!). Not all moms who choose not to breastfeed do so because "they can't be bothered." Some women, especially new moms --me included (the first time around), --didn't breastfeed or didn't persevere at breastfeeding because they weren't better informed or lacked the proper support from professionals and/or from family members.

    Regardless of whether we breastfeed or bottle-feed our babies, I'm sure as moms, we all strive to do the best we can for our children, given whatever set of circumstances we are faced with at any specific point in time. :)

  8. #24
    mumto2 is offline Registered User
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    [good] point taken buckeroo, was probably just being lazy in my post and not mentioning all things but my point really was do the research but also to be honest - I was probably being subjective too because of the women I know who do formula feed and I know its because they couldn't be bothered after a while to breastfeed and wanted to go onto formula and women who have said "no milk" instead of the truth.

    :-)

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