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View Poll Results: Would you consider having surveillance camera at home?

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  • Yes

    15 42.86%
  • No

    11 31.43%
  • Maybe

    9 25.71%
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Would you consider having surveillance camera at home?

  1. #65
    london2hk is offline Registered User
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    I think these jobs are very different to what is on topic here and also you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.
    I'm not saying you shouldn't monitor or supervise your DH, I just don't think spying on them with a camera is the most best way.

    Domestic helpers live in their 'office' and would never really know when the cameras are on or off or where they are in the house and I don't think that is healthy for them to feel like they can never fully relax.
    Imagine if you were being filmed - permanent footage of you that is someone else's property, doesn't seem much different from being on Big Brother show really and they all go crazy after a few weeks!

    And I really agree with Matty, knowing you have a camera on you is unnerving and would distract me from the tasks at hand. I play silly games with the toddler I look after and if I knew a camera was on me and the adults will watch it later I definitely would be different if how I interact with him, I don't want them to witness my puppet shows!

    :yeah2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    call center
    - your conversation with callers will be recorded

    Fashion / luxury shops
    - mystery shoppers constantly come to check on the frontline sales team.
    - cameras are installed in the shops.

    Office
    - your computer is secretly monitored
    - in some traditional office, you have to mark down your onduty and offduty time.
    - even in some modern office environment, you get a company security card, each time u get in and out of office, u use the card to open the door, and in fact all these are recorded.
    - in some cases, you are required to sign in your online communication account such as msn, skype, etc, to let your supervisor know that you are onduty/offduty.

    Most work environments
    - a supervisor / supervisors are PRESENT to check on you


    So, should we all stand up and go for a demonstration against all these because we want our respect and privacy at work?

    Just imagine that the employer's home is the DH's office, and they should just work under supervision like all other employees in the world.

  2. #66
    aussiegal is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suv View Post
    LM also mentioned a nationality, ie Indonesian and developing world, being uneducated and them eating with their bare hands all in one para which makes me upset. To me, there is an implication that it is the above that leads to our precious little children being mistreated. Is that true or ok, you think?
    I think you overreacted to Little Monster's statement. But I will say that it is naive to think that all helper's are hygienic, educated etc. Many (not all) are uneducated and come from very poor families (thus they are here to support their family). A friend just discovered that her helper of 5 years stands on her toilet when using it - her son said 'mummy this is how x does wee wee'. I would not want that to happen in my house.

    I had a part timer who I had to remind every time she came over to wash her hands before she started work. She'd take public transport to us and want to touch my baby without washing hands. I had to get rid off her because it was clear she thought i was being over the top and that if i wasn't there to tell her she simply wouldn't do it. She would also use the same cloth to wipe a toilet and the sink!

    And of course there are the helpers in our playground that do eat with their hands, hot cooked food that is messy (noodles for example) and then without washing their hands they feed their kids (the employer's kids). Now that might be how they do it back home but it's not how we do it here with easy access to running water etc. There are differences that come from being in a developing world and if a helper can't respect that their employer has certain expectations or wants things done certain ways then they won't be in a job for long.

    Somebody earlier asked why strangers should be accorded such trust to begin with?We don't know them or their backgrounds why should they automatically be given the benefit of the doubt? I agree with this. I think that installing a camera is something you do at the beginning but overtime you shouldn't need to do it anymore. If you do it's time to fire.

  3. #67
    AndreaY is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiegal View Post
    A friend just discovered that her helper of 5 years stands on her toilet when using it - her son said 'mummy this is how x does wee wee'. I would not want that to happen in my house.
    Hmmm, unless you install cameras in the toilet too, (1) how would you really know and (2) it would not happen in your house. Provided they keep the toilet clean and wash their hands afterwards, I actually do not care about how my helpers use their toilets (apart from if they not use toilet paper or something). Since your friend signed 3 contracts with the same helper, I assume she thinks her work is good. For me, in this particular scenario, my worry would actually be why is her son (assumed he is over 3 with the "mummy, this is now x does wee wee") allowed to watch the helper wee....

    Guess the solution would be not to have a helper?

  4. #68
    mchew is offline Registered User
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    I agree with geomom et al about raising your child. However, I know that this is not always an option given that we want / need to work as well. I think if you are thinking of getting a camera, it's time to find a new helper, or find another alternative.

    I don't think it's easy to gauge what helpers do when we are not around. I have witnessed some helpers (in previous threads) who have thrown kids across the room in front of everyone - I yelled at her - but who knows what the helper does behind close doors. Not everyone's got cameras installed in their homes, so it's difficult to say what the helpers are doing. Even if they are not violent with the kids, they may not treat the kids with the same hygiene that you expect either becuase you are not around, or because they don't know any different. The net result, however, is that it is simply disgusting. The worse thing is that your baby can not communicate to you. It's a real frustrating experience.

    Aside from potentially (1) hostile, or (2) unhygenic, most of them may not be able to provide the type of stimulations required either becuase (a) they are disinterested, (b) not educated, or (c) something else. Who knows what the reason, but you really need to ask yourself if this is sufficient.

    I understand that cost needs to be a factor, but your child's well-being, in my opinion, supercedes that. Some of the alternatives my friends have suggested are the following:

    (1) Hire a nanny with an early childhood education (most costly);

    (2) Hire a helper to clean, and hire a Chinese nanny (less costly) to look after the child; or

    (3) Hire a helper to clean, and hire an expat babysitter who's looking for work (but doesn't hold an early childhood education degree or whatever) to help on a full or part time basis.


    All three options, however, would require the sitter/nanny to be compatible with the family on many levels (e.g., culturally, philisophically, etc...)


    My two cents...

  5. #69
    AndreaY is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by mchew View Post
    Even if they are not violent with the kids, they may not treat the kids with the same hygiene that you expect either becuase you are not around, or because they don't know any different. The net result, however, is that it is simply disgusting. The worse thing is that your baby can not communicate to you. It's a real frustrating experience.

    Aside from potentially (1) hostile, or (2) unhygenic, most of them may not be able to provide the type of stimulations required either becuase (a) they are disinterested, (b) not educated, or (c) something else. Who knows what the reason, but you really need to ask yourself if this is sufficient.
    I am not one who is thinks all helpers are great caretakers of children, but I do find this a little insulting. Do you really think that most helpers are potentially hostile, unhygenic, disinterested, uneducated or otherwise unwilling to provide proper care??!! I think it'd be sad if you did.

    The majority of helpers I know take good care of their "wards", they are not meant to be professional surrogate parents, so I think it's unrealistic to expect them to be of that standard. Also who said that "parents" are in majority that well-qualified, esp 1st time parents who are still trying to figure things out? Sorry if I am offending any 1st time parent, but I am just remembering when I had my 1st. I actually tried to cut my baby's fingernails and managed to cut her finger and she was bleeding.

    Excuse the babble, but I just thought the comment was a little hard to swallow.

  6. #70
    aussiegal is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreaY View Post
    Provided they keep the toilet clean and wash their hands afterwards, I actually do not care about how my helpers use their toilets (apart from if they not use toilet paper or something). Since your friend signed 3 contracts with the same helper, I assume she thinks her work is good. For me, in this particular scenario, my worry would actually be why is her son (assumed he is over 3 with the "mummy, this is now x does wee wee") allowed to watch the helper wee....

    Guess the solution would be not to have a helper?
    I wouldn't want my helper to walk on our floors with feet or shoes she's used to stand on the toilet with no matter how clean she keeps it. It's just not a picture I want in my head.

    As for how would a 3 year old have seen the helper wee in the first place I'm sure mine has seen my helper wee too. If they are out in public and she needs to wee there's no way I would want her to leave him standing outside the toilet door.

  7. #71
    AndreaY is offline Registered User
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    I was more thinking of if she did squat on the toilet to wee, the young boy would have clear view of her nether regions, which would not happen if she went normally. Maybe I am a prude and not have sons at the moment to speak from experience, but I wouldn't want my son, if I have one, to see that.

  8. #72
    monte is offline Registered User
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    Getting back to the original question, just thought I'd share my experience. We had the same sitter from the time our baby was about 6 months, and he always seemed happy when I got home so I never worried about her. ( I was only gone for 3 hours one afternoon per week). But then when he turned 10 months he started crying hard as soon as he saw her and crawling over to me and clinging to me desperately. I was pretty sure this was just a separation anxiety phase, but after several weeks of the same behavior I did start to wonder. Not that I thought she was abusing him, since there were no marks or bruises, but maybe she was jsut letting him cry or leaving him in the crib, etc. So after some debate I set up an audio recorder when I left one day (didn't have a camera). I did feel like I was invading her privacy and I felt some guilt about that, but I decided my need to feel ok about my son's treatment trumped the privacy issue for me. And I felt great about what I heard--he only cried for a few minutes, and she was very soothing to him, singing and talking. And then I heard them playing, again, with lots of singing and talking and giggling and I never worried about her since! He still cries when I leave, but I can hear that even before I get on the elevator he stops. Anyway, the one-time recorder was very reassuring to me as a new mom, and I don't regret it. If I had heard anything questionable, I would have let the sitter go.

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