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Are these feeding problem

  1. #9
    carey is offline Registered User
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    Thank you very much Sarah. I was determined to breastfeed him this morning after posting my last thread. But I ended up having a rather frightening time.

    My boy wakes up and cried for food. So I put him on my breast. He got very frustrated at sucking ( I believe my let-down is much slower then the bottle nipple). He twisted and turned and turned very red and cried. In desperation, I asked the helper to prepare 90ml formula for him. And handed him over to her for feeding.

    After taking about half of the milk, I took him over and tried to feed with the bottle. He burped and threw up milk in large amount from his month and nose. It was very terrifying for me. We tried comforting him and he rested and cried for more food but still refuse to take my breast and only can give him a bottle with formula.

    My question now to Sarah are--

    Does this mean my baby will refuse to take my breast unless I tried weaning him off bottle?

    I do pump milk. I understand is different from feeding him directly from the breast. If I fail to put him back to my breast, can I at least continue to pump and maintain my milk supply and feed him through bottle of my breast milk?

    If I continue to mix feed him, Are you suggesting is better to go one meal breast milk with bottle and one meal formula?

    I tried only feed him on my breast but he always root for more food and got frustrated sucking on my nipple. That's why I supplemented him with milk powder.

    By the way Sarah, I live about two hours drive from HongKong. So, the LLL group in Hongkong is closest to me yet, still too far to travel to attend your meeting for the timing being.

    IF I have questions regarding BF, When is a convenient time to call you? ( I thought about calling today. But It's Weekend, I am not sure if you like to take calls during holiday. )

    Thank you again for lending a hand and voice during this stressful time.

  2. #10
    LLL_Sarah is offline Registered User
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    Dear Carey,

    It is very frightening when your baby cries so much he changes colour and vomits. My last child still vomits if she cries too much.

    When I'm helping a mother stop supplementing with formula I usually suggest that you put the formula on a timetable. Say give 90mls 3 times a day at 10:00 am, 4:00 pm and 10:00pm and breastfeed in between. Don't worry if the baby wants to feed lots and lots - that is the quickest way to build up your supply. Because you are giving the supplements you know that the baby is getting enough so you don't have to worry about that - just that the baby is drinking when at the breast.

    If you can send me your email address I will send you a video of nutritive breastfeeding so you can see if your baby is feeding like this. Basically it is with a big jaw movement. If the baby is moving the whole of the jaw in a slow rhythmic motion then he is drinking but if he is only moving his lips in quick rapid movement then he is just comfort sucking.

    Then when you are happy that everything is OK slowly reduce the amount of formula you are giving. Usually by about 10mls per feed - wait a few days until you are happy again and then reduce by another 10mls per feed. Don't try to go too quickly as you are more likely to worry and increase the supplements instead of reducing them.

    If the supplement can be your own breast milk - that would be great. But it is a lot of work to do all that pumping, especially when you are breastfeeding too.

    [Does this mean my baby will refuse to take my breast unless I tried weaning him off bottle?

    It is possible to get your baby to wean from supplements and still use the bottle. Although we usually suggest that you feed the baby with an alternative, for example, a spoon, spoon-feeder, cup, or (my favourite) a lactation aid.

    There are instructions for using an at-breast supplementer or lactation aid at, http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/5pdf.pdf

    There is also a video on the web page Breastfeeding Articles by Dr. Jack Newman - Breastfeeding Online
    In section called At-Breast Supplementer under the title Lactation Aid. (It has a little video camera picture next to it.)

    (In this video Dr Newman just uses the tube and puts it straight into the bottle. This works just as well as the Supplementer that Medela sell but it doesn't look as nice. Obviously for Medela to sell them to mothers more design had to go into it!)

    As your baby is latching on then I would recommend using a lactation aid/nursing supplementer as this allows all the feeding to be done at the breast. And feeding directly at the breast will increase the speed of your flow so that the baby is happy with it.

    If you want to buy a supplementer from Celki, the Medela agent in Hong Kong, ask for "Supplemental Nursing System" or a SNS. There is a picture of one at ++ Image ++

    I use an infant feeding tube (similar to Infant Feeding Tube - Exporter, Importer, Manufacturer & Supplier, Ahmedabad, India) when making a lactation aid and then do it the same way Dr. Newman does on his website. I buy mine from a local hospital. The mothers usually find it easy to use and the beauty of using this method is that you don't need to pump as much to keep up your supply because the baby's sucking does this for you.

    I do pump milk. I understand is different from feeding him directly from the breast. If I fail to put him back to my breast, can I at least continue to pump and maintain my milk supply and feed him through bottle of my breast milk?

    Full time pumping and feeding with a bottle is a lot of hard work. And you don't get any of the pleasure of either breastfeeding or bottle feeding. You are always worried about your supply because you can measure it. And you don't have the joy of the baby going to sleep at the breast.

    But it is possible. The biggest problem is that the mother usually gets fed up of pumping as time passes and so pumps less and less and then, of course, the milk supply gets less and less. I have known of mothers who have pumped their milk and given it to the baby in bottle of nearly two years but they have been very dedicated to giving their babies breast milk.

    You need to pump at least eight times a day. It doesn't have to be once every three hours, although that works fine. It can be once every two hours during the day and every four hours at night. Remember that pumping three times for ten minutes and adding the milk together will give you more milk than pumping once for thirty minutes.

    Pumping works in the same way breastfeeding does. The more milk you remove from the breasts the more milk you make.

    If I continue to mix feed him, Are you suggesting is better to go one meal breast milk with bottle and one meal formula?

    Yes I really don't like topping up because whether the baby is full or not he will always take more milk from a bottle. This makes you think you don't have enough milk and also stops you learning to mother your baby without the use of a bottle.

    I tried only feed him on my breast but he always root for more food and got frustrated sucking on my nipple. That's why I supplemented him with milk powder.

    When you do more breastfeeding and are trying to build up your supply the baby will want to feed a lot. This is a good thing as the quickest way to increase your supply is for the baby to suck at your breast. Usually the baby builds up the supply between three days and three weeks. During this time the baby wants to feed and feed and feed.

    As you have been giving so much formula you must let the baby work to build up your supply - this means that you will need to do lots of breastfeeding for the next few days. Increasing your supply is like putting in an order - it takes a few days to deliver. Usually mothers see evidence of more milk within three to four days. If your baby is getting fussy because of the slow flow try the breast compression and swap nursing. (See my post on Doc says give formula)

    Please feel free to call me anytime. If I'm out leave a message on the answer machine and I'll call you back when I return home. (Please repeat your telephone number on the answer machine - it makes it easier for me to get it right!) My number is (+852) 2548-7636 and email is [email protected]

    Best wishes,
    SARAH
    La Leche League Leader
    www.lllhk.org

  3. #11
    joannek is offline Registered User
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    one more thing. I notice that if i'm trying to build up my supply, i need to drink loads of fluid, like minimum 3 litres of fluid (water, soup) each day.

  4. #12
    carey is offline Registered User
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    Thank you ladies. I think I have been drinking quite a lot of fluid although I am not keeping account of how much exactly.

  5. #13
    joannek is offline Registered User
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    also, it actually doesn't sound like you don't have enough milk, especially if you're leaking into several breast pads a day. When you leak into the breast pads, do you feel the let-down (that's when the milk comes out in gushes). do you feel the same let down when your son nurses?

    if your bb falls alseep on the breast, how long has he been feeding?

    if he wakes up crying, maybe he has wind in his tummy, that's what happen to my girls. try to burp him after he wakes up from the scream. if he's still screaming, put him tummy down on your lap, & sway him side to side. if he calms down after you put him tummy-down, that means he has tummy pains. (usually wind) then sway until he calm enough for you to change position (maybe even 5 mins), pay close attention to if he has small burps. if he still cries after you change position, feel his tummy if it's cold, he has wind. then rub some olive oil (need thick oil) vigorously between your palms to heat up & put your palm on his belly button. rub your palms again if your hand not hot anymore. funnily enough, it works.

    i also notice that when my bb woke up crying (she's now 3 mths old) after a feed, & then i'd think she still wants milk, so i give her breast or bottle, she'd suck for a bit & turn her head & cry & suck & cry, this means she's tired but want to suck, that's when a pacifier comes in handy.

    pacifier are useful especially for baby is cries a lot. but use with precaution, make sure your bb fed, diaper changed & well burped before using.

    (oops, bb wake up now. will post more suggestions later)

  6. #14
    Suv
    Suv is offline Registered User
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    Hi Carey, I am actually wondering if your let down is too strong that your baby is not able to suck on it. I had something similar happen- my son would cry every time I put him on the breast and he would keep coming off and on again and again while getting very upset. I thought my milk supply and let down was down/ slow... and I was leaking into my breast pads quite a lot. Then my friend mentioned that she was having the same issue and she would express a little bit before feeding the baby so that the let down is more convenient for the baby. It worked wonders for me.

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