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New employer wanted

  1. #9
    howardcoombs is offline Registered User
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    Mocha,
    what you believe and the facts dont match each other. As can be seen from this thread, there are many like you who do not believe all the abuse and malnourishment cases that go in Hong Kong.

    I would urge you to research properly and if you have the time go do some volunteer work at Bethune House; you will see the real cases as they come thru the doors. In a very short amount of time, you will find out the reality of what DHs have to go thru.

    Until then, I would really apprecaite it if you could stop making baseless assumptions.

    HC

  2. #10
    anotherone is offline Registered User
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    There is no need to be condescending on a forum like this. So the "research" that you linked to cited one helper. I have personal experience through colleagues, family and friends, who all, despite their more than generous treatment of their helpers, ended up being accused of all sorts by their helpers after they parted ways. So do I win?

    No one says NO HELPER gets abused in Hong Kong. I also said at the beginning that this particular helper might turn out to be a really good one.

    You say I was naive in choosing to believe the version of events as told by the employer (which was NOT what I said as I also urged the use of judgement to evaluate the truthfulness of what the employer has to say). I would say anyone who automatically chooses to believe any horror story told by a helper simply because SOME helpers are treated badly is the truly naive one. If you say a bad employer would lie through his/her teeth, why wouldn't a bad helper do the same?

    Helpers can be good or bad, but all prospective employers should enter the hiring process fully aware of both sides of the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by howardcoombs View Post
    I would love to find out what you are basing this accusation on. I can a lot of independently researched articles and papers that claim otherwise. Where do you get your facts from?
    http://www.foodjustice.net/ahrc-arch...uarter-million
    Its a well known fact; its very very common.



    The alarm bell I'm hearing is the naivete of your advice. An abuse employer (a far too common problem in Hong Kong) will not want to talk to you about their activities. If they do, they will lie thru their teeth to shift blame somewhere else. Would you expect otherwise ?




    An excuse that has been well documented and proven to be true. I think that makes it not just an excuse

    *shaking head*
    HC

  3. #11
    miran is offline Registered User
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    anotherone - i agree there are many people who fall in too easily for pity stories. having said that it would be silly to dismiss all helpers as coniving people out to take emloyers for a ride.

    mocha - i dont think stuffing a cuisine one cant / wont eat down their throats is the answer. i have many indian friends who either let their helpers buy somethings they can cook for themselves OR give them a food allowance. "bowl of rice" or "loaf of bread" three times a day daily... wow ! makes me highly suspicious if you are one of "those" employers.

  4. #12
    howardcoombs is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherone View Post
    There is no need to be condescending on a forum like this. So the "research" that you linked to cited one helper. I have personal experience through colleagues, family and friends, who all, despite their more than generous treatment of their helpers, ended up being accused of all sorts by their helpers after they parted ways. So do I win?
    I wasnt attempting to be condescending, but when I hear quotes that say things like "it is very very rare for employers (even the supposedly "evil" Chinese employers) to not give their helpers enough food." it gets my back up because its pure BS.

    Knowing several hundred decent families with great helpers does not make the abused ones "rare". I only showed you one link because you can easily find more yourself or if you are so inclined go and see any of the various charities and help organisations. The fact is these incidents are not rare and to dismiss them like you (and a few others) did is not acceptable.

    I would say anyone who automatically chooses to believe any horror story told by a helper simply because SOME helpers are treated badly is the truly naive one. If you say a bad employer would lie through his/her teeth, why wouldn't a bad helper do the same?
    Let me ask you 2 small questions:
    1) if I child tells you that they are being abused, do you give them the initial benefit of doubt and investigate their claims or do you think they are suspect and start from a position of disbelief?
    2) if a woman tells you that they were raped, do you give them the initial benefit of doubt or do you think "this is so rare" and start from a position of disbelief?

    The situation is no different here - substitute an abused DH in place of a child or a woman.

    If you look at some of the advice written (by you and others) on this thread, you will clearly see the doubt being expressed and the benefit is not being given to the DH.

    HC

  5. #13
    anotherone is offline Registered User
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    Your analogies are lame but I will answer your questions regardless:

    - if a person alleges rape (or any kind of assault) he/she would be physically checked out, and other evidence would be collected
    - I would always be inclined to believe a small child simply because that's a child. But I would also make sure that the accusation is investigated

    In short, as I have advocated in my earlier posts, the key is to investigate any allegation and not to take sides simply because, for example, YOU believe that all helpers are faultless victims who can do no wrong. Your demand that everyone should automatically give the benefit of the doubt to the helpers without any attempt in finding out the truth is also quite telling.

    Personal experience and observations through family and friends are no less valuable/indicative than experience gained from charity work so I don't really understand what you're banging on about.

    "Rare" is a relative term, and in view of the many many good employers out there (many of whom I know personally) I would maintain my view that abuse, though it DOES definitely occur, IS rare.

    I shall stop here now as we have gone completely off-topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by howardcoombs View Post
    I wasnt attempting to be condescending, but when I hear quotes that say things like "it is very very rare for employers (even the supposedly "evil" Chinese employers) to not give their helpers enough food." it gets my back up because its pure BS.

    Knowing several hundred decent families with great helpers does not make the abused ones "rare". I only showed you one link because you can easily find more yourself or if you are so inclined go and see any of the various charities and help organisations. The fact is these incidents are not rare and to dismiss them like you (and a few others) did is not acceptable.



    Let me ask you 2 small questions:
    1) if I child tells you that they are being abused, do you give them the initial benefit of doubt and investigate their claims or do you think they are suspect and start from a position of disbelief?
    2) if a woman tells you that they were raped, do you give them the initial benefit of doubt or do you think "this is so rare" and start from a position of disbelief?

    The situation is no different here - substitute an abused DH in place of a child or a woman.

    If you look at some of the advice written (by you and others) on this thread, you will clearly see the doubt being expressed and the benefit is not being given to the DH.

    HC

  6. #14
    howardcoombs is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherone View Post
    In short, as I have advocated in my earlier posts, the key is to investigate any allegation and not to take sides simply because, for example, YOU believe that all helpers are faultless victims who can do no wrong. Your demand that everyone should automatically give the benefit of the doubt to the helpers without any attempt in finding out the truth is also quite telling.

    Personal experience and observations through family and friends are no less valuable/indicative than experience gained from charity work so I don't really understand what you're banging on about.
    What I'm banging on about is precisely your attitude as well as a couple of others in this thread WRT helpers who claim they have been abused.
    You seen to have a different standard for children who claim abuse or women who claim rape but when it comes to DH abuse claims, your tone suddenly changes.

    Here, let me rewrite a quote from you and you tell me if this sounds acceptable:
    I would say anyone who automatically chooses to believe any horror story told by a child simply because SOME children are treated badly is the truly naive one.
    I would say anyone who automatically chooses to believe a rape victim simply because SOME women are raped is the truly naive one.

    I dont find those sentences acceptable but you clearly do because you stated:
    I would say anyone who automatically chooses to believe any horror story told by a helper simply because SOME helpers are treated badly is the truly naive one.

    Yes, I'm guilty : if a helper (or a child or a woman) tells me they were abused I automatically believe them and then will give them benefit of doubt. Sure, I will also check out the facts later but I will start from a position of initial trust.

    It is very clear to anyone who reads this thread that you as well a couple of others start from a position of *distrust* which I find completely unacceptable and will continue to bang on about. We do not treat abused women and children this way, why should DHs be treated any different?

    HC

  7. #15
    miran is offline Registered User
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    completely agree wih you HC.... well put !

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