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Is it me or is this nuts?

  1. #9
    carang's Avatar
    carang is offline Registered User
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    if she has said that she will quit you MUST get that in writing! if that is the case, then you only have to pay her what is her due and let her quit.

    when is she planning on finishing work?

  2. #10
    Liquorice is offline Registered User
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    Mummymoo / Carang, I have tried to find out from the labour department under what circumstances I can terminate her contract but they are really non-committal. It seems that the employer really does not have many rights at all under these circumstances. I think I need to get legal advice. She is resigning now with a two month notice period, but I don't know how I can hold her to that - say, if she changes her mind after I've signed up another helper to replace her etc. She will sign a letter, but as I said in my last post I don't know whether she could say that she was forced in some way to resign. I asked the labour department and they told me this is a legal matter not a labour dept. matter, saying only that if she changes her mind about leaving then that is her prerogative.

  3. #11
    TheQuasimother is offline Registered User
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    (1) Confirm that she is pregnant. Pay for the test if you must at a medical clinic.

    (2) Get her resignation in writing like Cara says (even if she would later turn around and say that she was forced). Fact would be, she wrote in writing that she was given two months notice.

    (3) On days that she can't work, refuses to work, document it. And INSIST on a medical certificate from a doctor. ALL of us working mums have to do that. We couldn't just rock up to our bosses and demand that our workload got reduced. And, we still went home to our toddlers/children to be a mum! I'm sure the Labour Department is NOT unreasonable about this. Pregnancy is like you said, NOT a disease.

    (4) Take her to a doctor (at your expense). Be there when she speaks to the doctor. Ask the doctor to certify her fitness for work and if she isn't fit for work, make sure she gets a medical certificate. Even half days should be certified. Once her 10 weeks + 4 weeks (I think this is a labour law thing for pregnant women) have been utilised, let her know that it is no longer paid medical leave if she doesn't work.

    I'm sure she won't give you grief and neither will you get into trouble with the labour department if you get a doctor to certify all those days off when she whinges about not being to work.

    Not to sound harsh but I was a full time working mum with a child during my pregnancy. There was not a day when I could not rock up for work without a medical certificate or demand time off without one!
    “If you want to get to the castle, you’ve got to swim the moat.” Richard Jenkins in Eat Pray Love

  4. #12
    thanka2 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquorice View Post
    Mummymoo / Carang, I have tried to find out from the labour department under what circumstances I can terminate her contract but they are really non-committal. It seems that the employer really does not have many rights at all under these circumstances. I think I need to get legal advice. She is resigning now with a two month notice period, but I don't know how I can hold her to that - say, if she changes her mind after I've signed up another helper to replace her etc. She will sign a letter, but as I said in my last post I don't know whether she could say that she was forced in some way to resign. I asked the labour department and they told me this is a legal matter not a labour dept. matter, saying only that if she changes her mind about leaving then that is her prerogative.
    Draw up the letter and take it to a notary and both of you sign it in front of the notary. That is a legal document--and her argument that she was "coerced" will be harder to prove. Also draw up the letter in such a way that it explains her exact reasons for leaving the job--even a list of the items she is no longer able to do. That's what I would do.
    “Many women have described their experiences of childbirth as being associated with a
    spiritual uplifting, the power of which they have never previously been aware …
    To such a woman childbirth is a monument of joy within her memory.
    She turns to it in thought to seek again an ecstasy which passed too soon.”

    ~ Grantly Dick-Read (Childbirth Without Fear)

    Mother of Two
    JMW, boy, born November 29, 2007, 9:43 pm, USA
    MJW, girl, born March 17, 2011, 4:14 pm, HK

  5. #13
    thanka2 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQuasimother View Post
    Not to sound harsh but I was a full time working mum with a child during my pregnancy. There was not a day when I could not rock up for work without a medical certificate or demand time off without one!
    Exactly. And even then...in most situations you're lucky if you can get 1-3 days/off--forget about taking the rest of your pregnancy off. And most of us have to multi-task so much more in our jobs...and just like QM wrote, then we go back home at the end of the day and look after our toddlers and preschoolers and are a wife/partner....I don't have much pity for laziness

    As I write this I have a friend who works FT and is 4 months pregnant and she has been throwing up almost every day, all day at work for the past 3 months and she is STILL working and going home to her kindergartner every night and her husband. And she doesn't complain about it. Why? Because it's her job and she's a grown-up that knows that this is sometimes what life hands us.
    “Many women have described their experiences of childbirth as being associated with a
    spiritual uplifting, the power of which they have never previously been aware …
    To such a woman childbirth is a monument of joy within her memory.
    She turns to it in thought to seek again an ecstasy which passed too soon.”

    ~ Grantly Dick-Read (Childbirth Without Fear)

    Mother of Two
    JMW, boy, born November 29, 2007, 9:43 pm, USA
    MJW, girl, born March 17, 2011, 4:14 pm, HK

  6. #14
    Gracey is offline Registered User
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    It's funny, how in so many of these posts, helpers do not treat themselves like professionals, but like kids.
    Many of them do things that none of us could do in our jobs -- not reporting for work, not handing in sick notes, etc.
    I've gotten 3 days off during my 7 months of pregnancy, because I called my office in advance, and then submitted a doctor's note from a hospital saying I had a threatened miscarriage. That's all.
    And I wouldn't ask for more unless, God forbid, I had another major medical scare.

    Get it all in writing. If she says 2 months, it's 2 months.

  7. #15
    mummymoo is offline Registered User
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    Carang, I believe there must be situations where pregnant workers can be fired/terminated, as the labour department can not be completely unreasonable if an employee is totally misbehaving as opposed to be being sick/unwell. That said, in these situations you do need to tread extremely carefully and document everything.

    I think the quasimother's suggestion for a plan of attack is sound advice if she decides to stay, but you know at the end of the day, even if you do manage to have her to show up for work everyday, or have a doctor certify that she is fit to work normally, and she does do the things she is paid to do....you won't be able to guarantee a good attitude whilst doing the work, and for me, a cheerful positive attitude is important, as a negative one brings the whole house down.

    Yes, get some legal advice. Thanka's advice of having the document signed in front of a notary public is a good one, however having used these services before, the people who witness these things are pretty unengaged in the whole process, mainly they confirm you are who you say you are and witness you signing the document WITHOUT making sure you necessarily or they necessarily understand the contents. At times they may refuse to witness the document if they feel unsure as to their role.

    Good luck and be careful

  8. #16
    lesliefu is offline Registered User
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    unfortunately i don't believe that terminating a pregnant worker, no matter what the cause will go down easy for the employer and the repercussions for the employer will be very tedious - think the best way would be to "convince" her to leave amicablely" and sign any papers..don't think a notary public is really all that useful in your case but as long as you have her sign papers, date them and have a witness to it, then that in itself should be a legal document that will hold her accountable and take the burden of releasing a pregnant employee. personally, when i was not renewed after returning upon my maternity leave (reason being I was not doing my job as stipulated in my contract - i was even THERE to do my job- i was on leave) I made sure to make a BIG fuss about it even though the end result was the same - I just had to make some noise shall we say.

    she's probably finding excuses to leave anyways - but doesn't want to say it because she loses all her "benefits" if you were to fire her instead. could you just pay her off so she doesn't lose them?

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