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Having an amnio test ruined my life

  1. #25
    erina320's Avatar
    erina320 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabibunny View Post
    But, the joys and gratification of raising a disable child I would consider more selfish since those feelings most likely only benefits the parent and not society (statistically speaking).
    You have obviously never worked (or for that matter even been close to a friendship) with a disabled person before. Your logic is truely disturbing. People with disablities give the rest of society (not just the parents of these people) the opportunity to learn and practice compassion. They are genuine people who challenge "society" at large to question what it is to be human, to know love for another, to sacrifice, to give and gain nothing in return and in short to be a better, more selfless human being. I challange you to find anyone who has worked with, knows closely or is related to a person with special needs to say otherwise.

    By your logic, we are cold, heartless chattle. Here only to work and contribute like unfeeling animals or robots. Elderly should be disposed of instead of loved and cared for by their extended family, the unemployed should be cast out of socity instead of given a second chance and anyone who ends up terminally ill or otherwise unproductive has no worth to the rest of us so let's get rid of them too. It's sickening...

  2. #26
    thanka2 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by carang View Post
    hmmm.... in another thread, thanka mentioned she was tired of being PC about some things.... i guess wasabibunny feels the same.

    Ooooh....that stings. (BTW...I said the PC thing on another forum, I think.

    I just want to clearly state here that from reading wasabibunny's posts here in this thread that my personal ideals/philosophies etc. really are in no way connected to how she feels about this topic. I am not familiar with wasabibunny but it appears in this regard we have absolutely nothing in common ideologically. Just want to make that clear.
    “Many women have described their experiences of childbirth as being associated with a
    spiritual uplifting, the power of which they have never previously been aware …
    To such a woman childbirth is a monument of joy within her memory.
    She turns to it in thought to seek again an ecstasy which passed too soon.”

    ~ Grantly Dick-Read (Childbirth Without Fear)

    Mother of Two
    JMW, boy, born November 29, 2007, 9:43 pm, USA
    MJW, girl, born March 17, 2011, 4:14 pm, HK

  3. #27
    carang's Avatar
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    no, no, no... i didn't mean that they did.... if the remarks were from elsewhere, my deepest and sincerest apologies. (i thought that was what you said on the porn thread.... if not, apologies! ;))

    i could never in a million years think you would think the same as wasabibunny.... i don't know many people who do.

  4. #28
    miran is offline Registered User
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    what's "PC" ?

  5. #29
    howardcoombs is offline Registered User
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    Politically Correct
    If you are a Canadian - an old, dead political party :-)

  6. #30
    charade is offline Registered User
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    Oh, I wasn't astonished by wasibibunny's comments on PC grounds. Rather it's the logic that confounds. Especially"There are already so many orphans and disabled individuals and starving children." Again, by that logic, none of us should be having children at all, given how overcrowded the world is and how many children there are that could be adopted.

    The fact is that most of us don't choose to have children for altruistic reasons - there is the "pleasure of reproduction" (that wasabibunny cites) and a number of other reasons which are unconnected to the good of society and more connected to the good of ourselves. Moreover, I'd wager that most people who choose to terminate a pregnancy because the child is going to be disabled do so for reasons more to do with themselves than the good of society. So why should parents who choose to give birth to a child that might have a disability be particularly singled out as selfish?

    I don't see what great contribution most of us are making to society anyway. We exist and we are trying to exist comfortably, consuming a chunk of the earth's resources as we go along.

    I also find this 'burden on society' line of thinking scary because its extreme form is the Nazi idea that anyone who does not fit the ideal of a perfect human should be be exterminated. There are still countries in the world where society deems women to be a 'burden' resulting in baby girls being aborted and a skewed sex ratio.

    I'm not anti-abortion, nor can I say for certain what my choice would have been had I known that my child was liked to have DS. One of my worries would be how my child would manage once I died.

    But if there are parents who feel that they can make suitable arrangements for their child, why not? As I see it, the primary responsibility for caring for children with DS falls on the parents and thus they rightly have the freedom to decide whether to terminate or not. I barely see society playing any big role. As a member of society, I don't feel like I'm bearing some great burden as a result of the few children that are born with a disability. One could also argue that people with disabilities stand a good chance of being independent if society was not so individualistic, materialistic and dare-I-say "selfish" and didn't grudge them a little patience, help and some tax dollars.
    miran, pixelelf, Gataloca and 1 others like this.

  7. #31
    jvn
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    I didn't read it like that Carang. Breathe Thanka! :-)

    The whole argument is flawed, from the definition of society and the use of the word statistically to the idea that the the number of steps away from physical perfection a person is should dictate their right to exist in this world. As others have said, it stems from a lack of experience of the world and you can't gift that on a post in a forum.

  8. #32
    thanka2 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvn View Post
    I didn't read it like that Carang. Breathe Thanka! :-)

    The whole argument is flawed, from the definition of society and the use of the word statistically to the idea that the the number of steps away from physical perfection a person is should dictate their right to exist in this world. As others have said, it stems from a lack of experience of the world and you can't gift that on a post in a forum.
    Ha ha ha...I'm actually not upset...but because it could be read that wasabibunny and I are on the same page, I really needed to make it clear that we're not. As I communicated to carang elsewhere, "wasabibunny's 'name' and my 'name' used in the same sentence was a bit frightening"--especially on this topic.

    There probably is no need for me to clarify where I stand on this issue further. :)
    “Many women have described their experiences of childbirth as being associated with a
    spiritual uplifting, the power of which they have never previously been aware …
    To such a woman childbirth is a monument of joy within her memory.
    She turns to it in thought to seek again an ecstasy which passed too soon.”

    ~ Grantly Dick-Read (Childbirth Without Fear)

    Mother of Two
    JMW, boy, born November 29, 2007, 9:43 pm, USA
    MJW, girl, born March 17, 2011, 4:14 pm, HK

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