- 11-12-2011, 11:29 AM #49
I don't mind being called harsh. Yes I am a harsh person. We all have to believe what we need to sleep through the night and get through the day. There's not reason to continue this discussion if it's just going back to how we feel about our lives. And I am sure most of you on this thread don't care to hear my opinions.
And you brought up dyslexia, which really does not count in any way as a SEVERE disability. Dyslexia occurrence also depends on the language in use. English has the highest case because of its many irregularities and Chinese user have a very low occurrence because they don't use phonetic writing. It's a moot point you are making and doesn't address what I said. You are resorting to a personal /emotional space.
social justice and equality:
"Social justice generally refers to the idea of creating a society or institution that is based on the principles of equality and solidarity, that understands and values human rights, and that recognizes the dignity of every human being"
National Association of Social Workers
"Social justice is the view that everyone deserves equal economic, political and social rights and opportunities."
merriam-webster definitions of
Social: of or relating to human society, the interaction of the individual and the group, or the welfare of human beings as members of society
Justice: the administration of law; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity
So yes... I think social justice and the concepts of equality and fairness are quite tightly knit. I don't think there is enough time for me to go into my thoughts on the subject and in such a forum.
- 11-12-2011, 11:52 AM #50
actually not.... the question is where do you draw the line and who should be appointed to draw that line and distinction.
while YOU may not classify it as a disability, someone else may....
so, who do we appoint as "god" deciding who should abort and who should not?
- 11-12-2011, 02:18 PM #51
I thought we were talking about each of our own opinions... we make our own laws and government. These issues should be concluded through discussion and debate. Who decides depends on the government and the institutions one lives under. Now you are just talking about whether or not we have human agency. We decide every day. Governments have to decide daily how much value they put on each individual (and yes, it might shock you to learn this but sometimes they actually put a price on our heads when they are making policies that might affect morbidity or mortality rates). We don't have unlimited resources. When do you pull the plug on someone in a vegetative state? When are people allow to abort a fetus? How much social aid and healthcare do the elderly receive? These decisions are made daily. Unless of course you have private health care or are extremely wealthy. We draw lines in our lives everyday. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise.
- 11-12-2011, 03:07 PM #52
so you think that aborting "disabled" children should be a gov't policy?
if that's the case, then it is very easy to see why hitler was brought into the thread.....
Last edited by carang; 11-12-2011 at 03:10 PM.
- 11-12-2011, 03:25 PM #53
I didn't ever say that. You are responding this way because you are offended and reacting emotionally. It's not a black and white issue. There is a lot of discourse and thought that go into bioethics. If you want to put words in my mouth because that makes you feel like you are winning, then fine. Although I would much rather prefer rational well thought out arguments that actually stick to the topic at hand. But that might be expecting too much here.
- 11-12-2011, 03:43 PM #54
no, i was asking if i was understanding you correctly. that is how your previous post sounded.
so, again, how/who draws the line?
also, do you really think that a consensus can be reached regarding such a "policy"? many can't even agree on whether abortion should be legal or not....
what about places that do not "make their own govt"?
- 11-12-2011, 05:48 PM #55Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Wasibunny, having agreed that we are all motivated by self-interest in having children - whether you believe in population explosion or not, there's not real reason a good chunk of us should exist or procreate, the only social benefit of procreation being population of the species and maybe ensuring a 'marketplace' for which there already are enough people globally. So speaking from a position of selfishness oneself is pretty shaky ground from which to be telling others to what degree they should be selfish.
But you not only seem to tell them how selfish they are allowed to be but how magnanimous also. Thus, even if a wealthy person can ensure that their disabled child will never be a burden on the rest of society, you believe their wealth would be better spent on some existing disabled child. Why so? You seem to indicate that bringing one more disabled child into the world and spending time and money on it is waste of resources, not just society's but even the individuals. Well, most things we do are a waste of resources - and this is a child we're talking about.
- 11-12-2011, 08:34 PM #56Registered User
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Hong Kong
I love these words by Emily Kingsley..
I haven't been in the situation of expecting a baby with health issues, but when I look at my little man's face, I know I would love him and cherish him regardless of his intellect or mobility. In fact I think if he did have those challenges I would feel even more protective of him!
WELCOME TO HOLLAND
Emily Perl Kingsley.
c1987 by Emily Perl Kingsley. All rights reserved
I am often asked to describe the experience of raising a child with a disability - to try to help people who have not shared that unique experience to understand it, to imagine how it would feel. It's like this......
When you're going to have a baby, it's like planning a fabulous vacation trip - to Italy. You buy a bunch of guide books and make your wonderful plans. The Coliseum. The Michelangelo David. The gondolas in Venice. You may learn some handy phrases in Italian. It's all very exciting.
After months of eager anticipation, the day finally arrives. You pack your bags and off you go. Several hours later, the plane lands. The stewardess comes in and says, "Welcome to Holland."
"Holland?!?" you say. "What do you mean Holland?? I signed up for Italy! I'm supposed to be in Italy. All my life I've dreamed of going to Italy."
But there's been a change in the flight plan. They've landed in Holland and there you must stay.
The important thing is that they haven't taken you to a horrible, disgusting, filthy place, full of pestilence, famine and disease. It's just a different place.
So you must go out and buy new guide books. And you must learn a whole new language. And you will meet a whole new group of people you would never have met.
It's just a different place. It's slower-paced than Italy, less flashy than Italy. But after you've been there for a while and you catch your breath, you look around.... and you begin to notice that Holland has windmills....and Holland has tulips. Holland even has Rembrandts.
But everyone you know is busy coming and going from Italy... and they're all bragging about what a wonderful time they had there. And for the rest of your life, you will say "Yes, that's where I was supposed to go. That's what I had planned."
And the pain of that will never, ever, ever, ever go away... because the loss of that dream is a very very significant loss.
But... if you spend your life mourning the fact that you didn't get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very lovely things ... about Holland.
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