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  1. #33
    thanka2 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by carang View Post
    thanka, i understand completely what miran is saying, especially since neither of my pregnancies were simple and straight-forward. from almost the very beginning of my pregnancies, i had decided that whatever was deemed safe, appropriate, and with as little harm as possible to both mum and baby would be the best for us. i didn't care if it was a "normal" birth or a c-section.

    my views on this topic are similar to my views on breastfeeding. while both "normal" birth and breastfeeding are perhaps the "best" choice.... they are NOT always the best for each case for a myriad of reasons, be it complications or living in a country where the care may not be readily available.

    i, personally, think that women put too much pressure on themselves to be perfect. they often feel that if they don't have a natural birth, they are a worse mother, if they don't breastfeed (for whatever reason), they are a bad mum..... and it just continues.

    i think that it should be up to each and every individual to choose what is best for them and their situation. i DO think that all options should be open to them and proper information provided so that they can make an informed choice. but that choice will differ from woman to woman. and who am i to question their choice/decision?
    Cara, I think I know what you're saying. Let me give this personal example. I had borderline obstetric cholestasis in my second pregnancy. If this condition reaches a critical level the mother must be induced no later than 36 weeks because if not it can kill the child. Toward the end of my pregnancy, I was faced with this situation. If my level had reached critical I wouldn't have any other choice for the health of my child than to induce early and possibly have a c-section to get the baby out--for her safety. The only cure for this condition as is the case with eclampsia is to get the baby out.

    I was 100% okay with this because it was my only option. If you have health problems and it really is your only option you do what you've got to do. There are women with cases like this and thank God emergency measures are available for these reasons.

    But, I didn't go into birth with the attitude that having a c-section was equally as healthy for my child as a natural childbirth. In the case of an emergency situation, I would have to compromise to save my child's life (or my life). But, I still believe that natural birth is healthier for my child. Not just based on my "feelings" about it but actually what we know about the effects of the drugs on both mom and baby--it's not ideal. If you have to have it--that's the reality and I would grieve that but I would do what needed to be done.

    Also, not every emergency (or seemingly emergency) situation must be dealt with through induction and c-section. But, when a doctor is trained as a surgeon, that is the go-to procedure.
    “Many women have described their experiences of childbirth as being associated with a
    spiritual uplifting, the power of which they have never previously been aware …
    To such a woman childbirth is a monument of joy within her memory.
    She turns to it in thought to seek again an ecstasy which passed too soon.”

    ~ Grantly Dick-Read (Childbirth Without Fear)

    Mother of Two
    JMW, boy, born November 29, 2007, 9:43 pm, USA
    MJW, girl, born March 17, 2011, 4:14 pm, HK

  2. #34
    carang's Avatar
    carang is offline Registered User
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    i agree whole-heartedly that mothers AND fathers should be given all information upfront. they should not have to "go digging" to get it.

    as you know, in my personal cases (both of them), i really didn't have a choice. it was down to the health of both mother and child.

    i don't like to be made to feel guilty that i had c-sections. i don't like to feel i need to explain why i had c-sections. (i'm not saying this to you.... i mean in general).

    the same way i don't think a mother should feel like she needs to explain why she's not breastfeeding.

    it SHOULD come down to making an informed decision. once that decision is made, i feel, that the mother needs support, not criticism.
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  3. #35
    catan is offline Registered User
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    Mothers shouldn't feel guilty over their informed choices, where the decision is best suited for the situation.

    Very generally speaking, it seems that women no longer trust their own bodies and what they're capable of. For example, the view of childbirth as a medical condition (I know it is sometimes, I'm not considering those here...) is not questioned; it is common knowledge. Media portrayal of childbirth is often women screaming in pain and doctors saving them from it. This kind of mentality lets hospitals and doctors get away with what they do, and make women who want no interventions to 'fight' for it.

    If you tell people you want a home birth, they think you're crazy. But studies have shown that natural births with no interventions are best for mother and baby in 'normal' cases. Reading the books of Ina May Gaskin and Grantly Dick-Read has really opened my eyes.

    There are people out there who believe that c-section is better and healthier in normal cases where normal delivery would been just fine. Even when they know the risks of surgery, that c-section is so prevalent lets them think that it is safe.

    Threads like this (hopefully) encourage women to think more about what they can do despite how medical system is. They can feel empowered instead of submissive.
    TNT, bridiemexico and genkimom like this.

  4. #36
    Lali07 is offline Registered User
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    I'm not sure I agree with the notion of 'making' people feel guilty. We're all responsible for our own feelings, no-one can force us to feel anything. Guilt is a feeling that can creep in when our conscience becomes aware of something we're not quite comfortable with. If I am comfortable with my choices (or at peace with the fact that they were unavoidable) I couldn't care less what others think. Lots of people comment on me 'still' breastfeeding my toddler, generally in a negative sense. I'm not ashamed, I don't feel guilty. And if I wasn't able to breastfeed, I wouldn't feel guilty either, disappointed maybe but not guilty. Back to the subject at hand, birth, do I feel guilty that I had pain relief? No. Sometimes I wish I had been better prepared, but I wasn't and thats that. I don't blame anyone else for my feelings. I do wish I'd been told about the risks of pitocin, but like I said above it would have been easy for me to google it. Its my pet peeve when people say someone else 'made' them feel guilty, or even worse, refusing valuable information to avoid feeling guilty.
    TNT and thanka2 like this.

  5. #37
    carang's Avatar
    carang is offline Registered User
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    when all you hear is: breastfeeding is best. if you love your child, you should breastfeed. breastfeeding gives your child the best start in life....

    and it doesn't work out for you.... MANY women feel guilty.

    whether you agree with it or not, doesn't matter. it's how they feel. not one person makes them feel guilty. it is just how they feel... society seems to look down on them because they are not doing what they are constantly told is best for their child. ie) if you love your child and want the best, then breastfeed...implies to those who can't/don't that they must not love their kids as much as those who do.

    it's the same with should i work outside the home or not? if you do, you feel guilty, because you think you should/you want to be home with your child. if you stay home, you feel society looks down on you because you are "just a mum" or "just a housewife"...and don't fool yourself. lots of women who work outside the home look down on those who don't... those who don't look down on those who do.

    it's great that you are comfortable enough in yourself (as am i) that you don't feel guilty. not all people are that strong/self-confident.
    Last edited by carang; 01-09-2012 at 06:46 PM.

  6. #38
    Lali07 is offline Registered User
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    Its not that I am strong or self-confident, I would say I am only average in this area. But I've made my choices based on the information I have, and am comfortable with those choices. If other people think my choices are stupid, then thats their business.

    I also think we should move away from the whole breast is best mantra. It should be "here is all the available information, make your own mind up". Some of that information may be sensitive, some people I am sure don't want to hear it, but I don't think thats reason to withhold it.

    It is nobody's business how you feed your baby, but it is everybody's business that the correct, scientifically backed, information is made available.

    Withholding any information, for example, of the dangers of smoking when pregnant, for fear of offending smokers, is unethical.
    carang and TNT like this.

  7. #39
    carang's Avatar
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    on that, i whole-heartedly agree!

  8. #40
    thanka2 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by catan View Post
    Threads like this (hopefully) encourage women to think more about what they can do despite how medical system is. They can feel empowered instead of submissive.
    YES
    :
    YES


    (I got a little carried away )
    “Many women have described their experiences of childbirth as being associated with a
    spiritual uplifting, the power of which they have never previously been aware …
    To such a woman childbirth is a monument of joy within her memory.
    She turns to it in thought to seek again an ecstasy which passed too soon.”

    ~ Grantly Dick-Read (Childbirth Without Fear)

    Mother of Two
    JMW, boy, born November 29, 2007, 9:43 pm, USA
    MJW, girl, born March 17, 2011, 4:14 pm, HK

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