Does your helper stay out late?

[carang]

wanfamily, i hope you know that my posts were not directed to you (unless specifically stated) but rather to a poster after yours.

i am in no doubt whatsoever that you are trying to do right by yourself and your helper.

good luck!

[AndreaY]

.....

" So it seems she is happy to work like a slave"

She is probably not happy at all. More likely so scared that she can not get another job as she has a family in her home country that she needs to look after. As a result of her stress, her work suffers, her mental health suffers, the children she is caring for may suffer... I am sure that the employer would know the rules about employee staff and they should. Some people don't see the connection between a content employee and a job well done.

I don't know the situation that was cited, but with our helper, she chooses to work on some of her days off. I do not work her like a slave. I told both our helpers that we appreciate their help (making it easier on us) and if they choose to work on their days off, we will pay them extra for their work. One chooses to take her days off to see friends, the other wants to send more money home, and we are fine with both decisions. What I am trying to say is that just becos a helper works on her day off, it does not automatically mean she is treated like a slave, sometimes it is the helper's personal choice.

As for curfew, I ask my helpers to come back before 10pm and they are fine with it, in fact, they come back mostly before 9pm. I was told that there was not much to do after 10pm. In any case, I think since clubbing or staying out very late was not generally something they did in their home country, they are not really asked to give up something they view as normality/necessity. On the occasions that my helpers had something special going on and needed extra time out, we were fine with it. We just wanted to know that they are safe and when to expect them home.

Obviously, if you are of the school who thinks that it is ok for helpers to hang around nightclubs, run around with lots of different men, drink and smoke and come back all hours during their day off (being their own biz and no one elses), then it's great, cos that means you will never have a single worry or fear about your helper ever.

If like me, you worry about your helper smoking, getting pregnant etc etc, I do not think it's terribly unreasonable to impose a few ground rules. I know having a curfew does not mean a helper would not get up to no good, but it does limit some less desirable places or acts that one associates with nighttime. I assume this is also the reason why we try to tell teenagers not to stay out so late. But I think these house rules should be laid out when one is hiring, so both sides can know what to expect of each other. If a helper thinks it's unreasonable, then she has the choice of not working for that particular employer.

[carang]

"Oviously, if you are of the school who thinks that it is ok for helpers to hang around nightclubs, run around with lots of different men, drink and smoke and come back all hours during their day off (being their own biz and no one elses), then it's great, cos that means you will never have a single worry or fear about your helper ever."

i came here as a 22 year old single female. i was right out of uni. and i had decided i really wanted to experience hong kong. i had a GREAT time! yes, i went to nightclubs (where people smoked~not me... i think it is disgusting!), i danced with men (uh oh, i'm in trouble now), i may even have ended up dating some (oops, i guess we all forget what it is like to be young, huh!?!?)! yes, i drank. yes, i got drunk. yes, sometimes i even went home with my date (is that too much information?). i had NO ONE here to take care of me. that was fine. i was an ADULT. i chose to do what i did. i was having fun! i ALWAYS went to work the next day and probably worked even harder if i was suffering a little.

this does NOT make me a bad person. this does NOT make my irresponsible!


as i used to tell my mother, "if i'm going to get up to no good, i can just as easily do it at 1pm as 1am...." my mother agreed.

funnily enough... my mum was fairly lenient with me when i was younger.

[carang]

.... and i turned out ok... (at least i think i did.)

[HappyV]

carang - couldn't agree more.

** Since when do smoking and getting pregnant operate on the same level of 'unacceptable?? A helper can get pregnant at 8pm just as easily as at 10.05pm. Ditto for employers being overly fastidious when it comes to minding other people's morals.

[AndreaY]

i came here as a 22 year old single female. i was right out of uni. and i had decided i really wanted to experience hong kong. i had a GREAT time! yes, i went to nightclubs (where people smoked~not me... i think it is disgusting!), i danced with men (uh oh, i'm in trouble now), i may even have ended up dating some (oops, i guess we all forget what it is like to be young, huh!?!?)! yes, i drank. yes, i got drunk. yes, sometimes i even went home with my date (is that too much information?). i had NO ONE here to take care of me. that was fine. i was an ADULT. i chose to do what i did. i was having fun! i ALWAYS went to work the next day and probably worked even harder if i was suffering a little.

this does NOT make me a bad person. this does NOT make my irresponsible!

Carang - In fact, that made you incredibly responsible, cos I am sure you were informed enough to have safe sex and not get any sexual diseases or pregnant either. And even if you did, I am also sure you would know how to and had the money to deal with it. I am not trying to be rude or sarcastic. But there are a lot of young helpers out there who are not as informed as a young you and such temptation may lead to undesirable consequences.

Yes, it's true that if you are going to get up to no good, you can just as easily do it at 1pm as 1am. But no one really goes clubbing at 1pm, so I assume eliminating the 1am would also eliminate the clubbing scenario. There is no rule that "good time" leads to trouble, but it can. The difference is that I am not my helper's mother, so I do not have unconditional love for them even if they do err.

As I said, if one does want to impose a curfew, it should be explained before hiring, if that has been agreed before both parties, there really should be no more concern on that matter.

[AndreaY]

Happy V - addressing the small issue of smoking, I am one of those anal people who hates the smell of cigarette smoke, so I would not employ a smoker. And yes, no matter what you clean your mouth with, you can still smell a smoker. And yes, it applies to the whole household, I complain when my husband comes back smelling from 2nd hand smoking too, so not bias on that front. You can tell I am one who is ecstatic about the government smoking ban!

[aussiegal]

I think some of you are being overly harsh and having fun taking 'the moral highground' rather than actually contributing reasonable advice as the OP asked for.

For those who are into setting rules, at the end of the day it is the your right to as long as these rules are laid out at the time the job is offered (and not after someone has started work) then the helper can always say no.

Of course some people will always be extreme in the rules they set but i can completely understand not wanting a helper to be out after midnight when she has work the next day. Personally, if it happens once every few months I wouldn't have an issue at all but if it happened a few times a week, as it does for a friend of mine I would.

It is not easy managing the strange relationships we have with helpers. They live in our houses but at the end of the day are employees. They are adults but not all act responsibly. Some need rules, some don't. Some do the right thing, some take the piss, especially out of new employers which is what the OP is.

Wanfamily, i didn't read anything offensive in what you had to say but i did find it offensive (and unfair) the extreme reactions others have had.

Andrea, i think you are being reasonable. You laid out your rules at the beginning.

On a side note, we have always hired helpers who were married and had finished having babies. It wasn't about 'minding someone else's morals' and not wanting them out partying, it's about not wanting them to get pregnant and leave, which is both expensive and disruptive. We have a friend who is now in the unfortunate position of having a helper who initially started being difficult when told she would need to babysit the kids most fridays because she'd found herself a boyfriend (and wanted to party) and now, only a few months later is pregnant. Helpers of course have a right to get pregnant but if having a pregnant helper isn't in your plan what's wrong with wanting a 'good catholic girl' who wouldnt' want to get pregnant without being married?

And to stir the pot, we have two ex-helpers in our building who have 'replaced' the originals. Hopefully when your husbands are out bar hopping (or working late i think they call it) they won't be hooking up with HappyV or Bump's helpers and planning ways to leave...

I'm being extreme only to counteract some of the stupid comments here.